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Speaker A I'm Jerry Gray. Retired from the University of Manitoba two years ago. Spent my entire career academically at that university. Spent, spent my 35 years there. I spent a lot of that in administration, retiring as dean after nine years, two years ago. My first exposure to Ro was actually as a graduate student in 1967. And I was a graduate student at Southern Illinois University and had the opportunity, in a rare one, to spend a summer at the Glacier Institute of Management, which at that time was in Albertan or in Ricelip just outside London. And I spent my summer there as a student studying, taking courses and doing my master's thesis. So that's why I first got exposed to the concepts. Really thought they were very robust, very useful. Went on to complete my doctorate. And then when I started teaching, I started incorporating the concepts in all my teachings. And I taught over the years literally thousands, of course, of undergraduate students, fewer thousands of MBA students, and a lot of executives and managers. I did a lot of executive training in my day. I also had an opportunity to go back to the Institute in the late 70s, early eighty s, and taught courses at the Institute. So I've kept my tie all these years. And the thing that has kept me going is it made me a more effective teacher to have the Ro concepts behind me. So no matter what the textbook would say in terms of a concept or a theory or idea, I could always use the Ro approach to it and show better how it worked or why it worked. So it's a very robust teaching device in my experiences. And again, I've taught mostly in Canada, obviously, but around the world, in China and Thailand as well. And I found no matter where I went, although there might be a language problem, the conceptual problems were never there. People understood the concepts very clearly, in fact, in many cases probably understand them even better because they had less to undo in terms of other not thoughts about hierarchy.