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Speaker A I don't know if magic is the right word, but all of the people, whether it was Steve, myself, General Starry, General Thurman and others like that everybody had a serious job that required an output, that required work. And that required developing an organization that could generate whether it's on the private sector side, revenue growth and profit growth, or on the public side, it required a more efficient and effective organization to better utilize resources. So we all had serious jobs doing serious things that required change. And Elliot's framework on designing an organization, thinking about the work in terms of the time span, in terms of the capabilities of the people that we were working with through and around all of those things, it was just elliot gave us a template and also gave us these tools to think through serious organizational problems and challenges. So that's what I think kept us connected, is that we all knew that there was somebody out there who could help us think through these issues and help design something. I think going back to 1984 when Sir Roderick came and we gave a seminar at General Thurman's quarters, and Sir Rod had two chairs. He had the chair of the CEO, and he had the chair of the intellectual guru, and he would go between one chair and the other. And it was a very effective tool in terms of saying, look, I respect Elliot and the theoretical framework he gives me, but my shareholders in this chair tell me that I have to generate revenue growth and profits, and I have to have a very effective organization to pay out dividends and stock growth. So while I like the intellectual framework Elliot has given me, to do this work, I also have to realize that I have to develop this organization and make changes in some of the principles that Elliot tells me are so I tell Elliot, thanks. I'm going to adapt these principles to the organizational environment that I'm faced here, whether it's in a mine or a smelter or in the finding of diamonds, ore, bodies. So Elliot tells me I can't change the principles. I know that I have to change them. Otherwise I may not make the goals that I've been given by my board of directors and my shareholders. So from that, we I think all of us out there that work and learn from Elliot, also learn from Sir Roderick that the principles are principles that have to deal with the changing environment that we face in each one of our own worlds.