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Speaker A Think you all did a wonderful job of setting context for doing this because a lot of the questions who have already come up as a result of the work that you just did, what we're looking at, just as was discussed, is how is the work getting done in the organization now and what is that work? Because I think you'll find if you can go into almost any organization and if you work top down getting eliciting the right information, you really will get a good understanding of the work of that organization and the work of that industry. So you're going in, your purpose is to do that. Now there's an interesting thing to consider in the process of eliciting that information. Are you an independent consultant, whether you're internal or you're external or are you part of a team and other people are gathering some of this organizational information as well. And that's one of the reasons if you're part of a team, which I usually try to develop within an organization, then we've got to have a consistent set of questions to ask rather than going in and asking questions. So what we're going to try to do today is to develop kind of a basic generic group of questions that you could use to go in and ask. Another thing that's very important to consider before you go in to do the process is are you going to educate the management about some basic requisite concepts ahead of time so that they have some idea of what you're doing and why you're doing it and what this language is? Or is it set up so that you're just going in and interviewing managers first before they get any education? I think you'll find it happens in both ways depending on the organization. I'm working in one organization now where the managers have not had any general education and we just have to go in and ask the questions. If I go in and set it up originally, I will give general education, much as you all did through the Elearning modules and maybe those modules will help over time get education in quicker in some of the basics. But if you go in on your own to ask questions, you need to be introduced by someone in the organization as to why you're there, why you're gathering that information. Otherwise, I find there's a lack of openness from the managers with regard to what they'll tell you. And what I see Jerry shaking his head yes. And what you really need to do is establish trust between yourself and the managers. And what I find is I generally tell them right up front that anything they disclose to me that they wish to keep confidential, I will absolutely keep confidential. And it helps them to open up because I do keep it confidential. And I think managers are wary of external consultants, certainly. So try to since trust is basic to everything in requisite organization, try to set up a very trusting relationship and of course, be trustworthy with people. And furthermore, what I find is if you do that, they will open up about their problems. And then I go back and say again, can I reveal that to your boss or to the colleague or whoever? And I've never had them turn me down. They always say, yes, please help me solve this problem. So that's just some of the ways to think about the process and think about whether it's better to have some education first of basic Ro concepts or as Paul was saying, he does some education about time span during the interview. I mean, I find that very impressive because already you've got a lot of things to elicit and to be teaching as well is a troll order. But I'm sure he can handle it very well. But he also said that he comes out of it with they're getting a whole new way to look at their work. So if they don't get the education ahead of time, you may be able to put in some of the education. While you're having the interviews, what we'd like to do is give you in pairs, five minutes to consider who of the people that you were talking about and on these charts you would like to interview and why, because that's one of the first things you have to set up. What resources do you have? How many interviews can you do? What are the critical interviews and in what order should those interviews take place? So would you just pair up with a next door neighbor and write down or think about somebody to interview, some people to interview, who you would interview first, why, and who needs to be interviewed. So let's just take some sample ideas of who you'd like to talk to and why you'd like to talk to them. Who would like to volunteer for this table? We'd like to talk with the President chief executive officer. We're interested in getting both her sense for her, where she's come from, what brings her to this role, what she's hoping to accomplish in it, and her sense for the current structure. How well does it support the strategy or not? Okay, how about somebody at this time?
Speaker B We chose a branch manager on a study argument. Sometimes we should be able to get back to the CEO at some stage, just a branch manager to hear another story, another perspective at a different level in the organization, and just hear what was reflected in that conversation.
Speaker A And then what would you be asked to do next?
Speaker B Well, hopefully get back to the CEO and be able to reflect back to the things that we've heard.
Speaker A And that's where you come in that confidentiality agreement with the person you're talking to because they may or may not want you to.
Speaker B Yes, there'll be some judgments. There'll be some judgments that you'll need.
Speaker A To make how about here?
Speaker B My honest answer as a consultant would be as many people as the budget would allow me to interview.
Speaker A Very good answer.
Speaker B Well, my wife also would like the revenue.
Speaker A Then.
Speaker B The right answer is I would really ask the CEO is obviously first, and I would ask her, try and get into a discussion with her who she thinks could be the best stakeholders for us to talk to. That would help you're out of battery to talk to what happened. In the back of my mind, certainly all was the key vice president responsible for Vine's Business, right?
Speaker A And what I do is exactly that interview as many people as the time and resources allow but I also try to educate the people in the organization how to do these interviews and what the interviews are about because as everybody has said this is a continually iterative process. This novice organization that you've heard a little bit about has been using Ranches over 20 years, another organization that he has been using for 16 years. Well, the organizations have changed enormously in that time. So I think one of the things we all want to do is educate as widely as possible, as much as possible don't think I'm notwithstanding the internal people to be able to do this. So I do some of my early interviews, not necessarily CEO but others with a team from within the organization and then I have them working with me to do additional interviews which is one of the reasons for getting consistent questions and a protocol.
Speaker B But based on the budget really it's going to drive because some people might have individual interviews and then I might want to have some group interviews to get that larger stakeholder perspective. So again a lot of it's driven by the budget.
Speaker A That's another resource. We talked with conversation, we said the test about how to prepare to ask first of all to come prepare to be like fresh and new page and not try to bring any assumptions about the company and the first one would be the President talking about how you take the company to the next level after that. Number two, it will be the COO that has a lot of consistency regarding community. What is the vision of your company? How would the next year also be the strategy? And more and more on. But listen to that. I think that's most important and what the question will be from the first answer.
Speaker B Here if you would want to go to the CFO if the budget was limited we to support the CEO for different strategies going forward.
Speaker A Thank you. I think there was a lot of good ideas about who you might interview in in what order. It's something that you really need to plan out ahead generally speaking. I think and I like my colleagues comments, I would always start with the CEO and would you all agree with that because you're trying to get a picture of her perception of the strategy and the goals and the objectives. Strategy is very broad and you can find out goals and objectives from her as well as how she is currently dividing work up among her immediate subordinates. So I would next go to the immediate subordinates. But I think the answer of you try to interview as many people as resources allow in an orderly fashion that makes sense in the context of what you're doing. And here you probably spend more time in it and probably risk management, possibly.
Speaker B The question about the interview format. When I have this process going, I always send them out in teams of two. And I have one person who's the interviewer and a second person who's taking the notes, and they switch back and forth. And then I mandate an hour of reflection time after the interview for the two of them to get together to more holistically, integrate the information that they've gotten. Is that something that you guys do you have a best practice?
Speaker A I think it sounds great if you have the resources to do that. It's fabulous. Fabulous. Did everybody hear that suggestion? No. Would you just stand up, repeat it again because I think it's a very useful suggestion if you have the resources.
Speaker B And again we do this in teams always, but I never send anybody out on a single interview because you're trying to take notes and integrate at the same time. So I always have a designated to ask the questions, keep the conversation going first and a person who's actually and then we mandate for each interview an hour afterwards to sit down for the two of those to get together and reflect back and forth and put together whatever the packages that they're trying to do. In terms of takeaway, I would add one quick thing about that. One of the roles to describe when you're doing the interview, if you're absorbed and you're talking, if you're focusing on the person, one of the rules of the scribe is to make sure that the interviewer asks all the questions. I was going to say that in the process you just outlined, you had described and the interviewer is involved. I'm talking to you Gary, right? And I'm involved with the conversation and I may lose track of the questions I've asked or not describe as the person who's free to tap into describe this. Two are all recorded and also make sure that the interviewer has all the questions. Just a couple of things. There are obviously different ways of doing it, so I'm not suggesting this is the right way to do it, but just in terms of some additional ideas. There's two ancillary things that I think are important when you're thinking about this stage. One is getting documents. So background documents, strategy, position descriptions, organization charts, whatever. So documents are very valuable at an early stage with regard to strategy. You will get strategy documents. But our experience is that the real strategy stuff comes from the CEO's head. The real strategy stuff isn't out on paper yet so that interview becomes critical in terms of getting more of the strategy stuff. Communication from the beginning, communication should come from the head of the unit that the interviews are going to take place in and that communication should come at the very beginning before things start. This is that person's project, this is their transformation or whatever. So they need to lead it and this is part of a process to help them do their work. So the communication is critical and the communication also in terms of benefits, one of the potential benefits is that employee satisfaction could go up in this stuff because things are clear for employees. So what's in it for employees? Don't promise something you can't deliver. But the change management theory is that if you make a change in terms of performance it goes up and then it goes down, then it comes back up again. Our experience is that with the communication being set up properly you don't have to go through that dip. So the communication is really critical. And then finally we tend not to do education before the interviews. We, we provide enough information to the person being interviewed that they know what we're asking and we keep probing until we feel comfortable that they really understand what time span is. So there is some education that goes on there. What we found is if we do too much education in advance it makes it much more difficult to do the interview because people are trying to give us the right answer rather than what really is. You got to sort it through all kinds of muck. So our personal preference is not to do it that way. And again, I'm not saying this is the best way or the only way, but just trying to give you a number of different perspectives. And finally fairly early it's implicit in the discussion but I think it needs to be explicit fairly early you need to decide what the scope of the project is. Is the scope of data? Is the scope the whole organization? What's the scope in our general experiences? I mean the preference is to do the whole organization. If you work with a whole system, our experience is you can get better impact if you work with part of a system, part of an organization. Our experience is to the extent that you can work with a whole subsystem that works better than mucking around in a bunch of different areas. So to the extent you can identify whole subsystem, say a business unit here's, the organization here's a business unit, if you can work with that business unit, that can be a viable subsystem to do a project on, that can serve as a pilot project even for a consideration of doing something more broadly. And if you do a pilot project. Two keys are one is it should be as complete as possible, so as separate as possible. The second is the leader should be someone who's a strong leader, who's innovative and so on, because you want the pilot project to be successful. In our experience, you do a pilot project, often the head of that unit becomes a bit of a hero in the organization and other people then want to get that stuff. So a few other ideas to consider coming on. The education I found, especially with walking companies, you could have a tough time getting a lot of time, any time, with a CEO or any of the senior executives. If you get a half an hour from the CEO, from a big corporation, sometimes it's pretty cool. What I've always found in doing not this kind of work, but strategy kind of work, is you schedule a half hour. If they're happy with the discussions, they'll continue and let you stay for as long as you like. But you got to really be sensitive to their time, I think. Yeah, I would agree. Generally we find we can do what we want to do within an hour. So up to an hour would be our ideal. But that's right. Sometimes you got to progress it. There's steps. You've been patient. Thank you. Is there also an implicit or explicit assessment of the capability of the leader of the unit or the organization? Because if their capability is not at the level of the task, they don't have much chance, do they? And you shouldn't be working with them at all. Theoretically and in practice, does it happen? And when this happens, what do we do rather than walking away?
Speaker A One of the basic questions that you will know is who is driving the project? Who is funding the implementation of Requisite organization into the organization? I've been in an organization where it was a global organization. The CEO was capable at the three level, his immediate subordinate was capable at six. She was the one who funded Requisite Organization. It was a problem because you can imagine because the CEO really didn't even fully understand what we were trying to do, in a sense. So yes, it's very critical. So we were able to do parts of the project, not all of it, but you yourself, as you're doing the interview, have an impression of the person and also, you know, the strategic outreach or the outreach of the strategy. So you're looking to see if there's a fit. In this case, the strategy she was assigned was 15 years. So you look to see if you feel that she's competent in doing that and if not, what the problems might be. And is she the one driving the project? Is she the one that says, yes, we have a problem. I'd like to approach the problem this way?
Speaker B This is a good question because it comes, I know from our perspective. We try to make it very clear up front that at this stage of diagnosis, that it should be clear from that trust relationship that we're not there to assess the performance, the capability of the individuals. Right. We're simply there to understand the work and how the work is structured and how it might be structured differently. And we have to keep that commitment because the trouble is that client, the CEO, is going to say, well, what did you think of Jared? So the minute I say, there's going to be time for that, because when you put the structure in place that you need to put in place, you're going to get into the process of having to select people. So that's the time when we could provide some support, some tools and whatever to do that upfront. If people are worried about that, you're there to assess them. Our feeling is that you're not going to get the quality. The only other thing I would add to this conversation would be around I'd be cautious about just opening the question, who do you think we should interview? I think we're being paid all right as experts in organization design, and we know our principles. We kind of know that's why we went through this exercise. Who do we really need to see to get at the kind of issues we were seeing in terms of looking at their strategy, looking at their current structure and that sort of thing? So I think when the money issue, part of that is to go back to the client and say, we really need to see these people at a minimum. And and then often when we present that back to a leadership team, we generally do that. This is what we're going to do. This is the process, this is how long it's going to take. This is roughly what's going to involve, and these are the people that we think we need to see, and we're intend on doing that. Do you think there's anybody else that we're missing relative to what this is all about? I like to bring it the other way, because if there's a gap or understanding the gap is a signal, she didn't include these people that I think are key stakeholders.
Speaker A How come?
Speaker B Now, I wouldn't ask her that, but it would be something in the back of my mind, because it's indicative of the relationships, the culture, the power, whatever. That could be a bigger problem or opportunity that you want to address. Well, I guess we're different, Gary. I find that a bit gamey. Personally, I would like to add a more practical note here. None of us is like Mackenzie or Bain that can just get a contract signed at the very beginning for $2 million, and it's going to take two years. And I found that while on occasion something happens that is desirable, more often than not, you have to earn the right to get a project. And so I rarely start with a project defined ahead of time. And I usually ask a client to commit to a week. And that week is interviewing the CEO and the executives, providing them some feedback. At the end of the week, I'll meet with all of them to show them what the initial impressions are. And then I say, you have to decide if you want to go to the next step. And I have to decide if I want to go to the next step. And that gets to the point that Ron was making. If the CEO is not committed to driving it, I don't foresee it. I simply don't foresee it because you end up doing more damage than benefit because you're promising something that you can't deliver. The other piece is I also go to a second step before I engage in a full project. And that is, okay, you're interested enough now. You have a sense of the areas. Now I need you to commit to four days with the entire executive team. And during those four days, you're not only going to learn what this is, but we're going to assess roles one and two levels below. We're going to assess people one and two levels below.
Speaker A So at the end of that time, you will have a concrete, palpable sense.
Speaker B Of what this is. Then we can talk about committing to a project. I find it just makes all the difference in the world. If they know what they're getting into before they commit to a two, three year project that's going to cost a.
Speaker A Million and a half dollars, and I would say do something similar. I'm sure you will do too. There's a presenting problem. They think this is a possible solution. So you've set up a phase one to see if it works. And phase 1 may be one month, one week, but it's very clear outcome. And you may not choose to continue to work there, and they may not choose to have you, generally speaking. Then you do phase two, and each of the phases beyond that extend longer because you're getting deeper in the organization and dealing with more people. One of the things just to wrap this up, determining the extent of the interview, we really didn't touch on that exactly because we were talking about interviewing the individual about their role. You also have to decide in that interview, is there enough time to interview them about how they delegate their work, how they divide up the pieces of their work that they give below them into roles. Sometimes I call this major categories of work that they give into the roles below them. Do you try to do that in the first interview? Do you make that two interviews? There's a number of answers to that, but you need to think about that because then when you go and interview the people at the next level down, you see the understanding or lack of understanding of what their manager thinks they are doing in their role. And I find a misfit there quite often that the manager thinks they're delegating things that are not clearly understood by the role beneath. So I try to help that communication.
Speaker B In our work, we always interview a manager about each of the subordinate roles.
Speaker A In the first interview.
Speaker B Absolutely. We may not do it all in one interview, but we have to, because the principle is time span is in the mind of the manager, not the subordinate.
Speaker A No, you have to my question was you have to determine whether you're going to have two interviews or try to get it all done in one interview. Very difficult to get it done in one interview unless they only have one or two subordinates is the point I want to make. But you realize you might need two interviews. And the last thing is the document review, which was touched on. One of the things that I do first when I go in an organization is I ask for the policy manual and I read through the policy manual because there's a lot of information to be gotten very dry, but a lot of information. Are there other ways that those of you who have experience have gotten written information that helps you understand what's going on? Any other suggestions for people?
Speaker B Yes, applying big data. I like to ask the client for the total organization in an Excel spreadsheet to analyze. Could you speak up? So another bit of data I would ask for is the total organization, in this case 15,000 people in a spreadsheet who reports to whom to draw pictures of the total structure. Because we've only got the top. We're still struggling with how many layers are there and look at the jobs by grade, by layer to see how overlayed the structure might be, which makes the big data idea as well the conference. That's very powerful, Jerry. What I would suggest, Adam, is this may sound like a plug, but it's in fact how we do the work. We had software where we take that Excel spreadsheet, load it in, and we can immediately have it show us or charts and allow us to then in the gearing session adjust manager's sense of the relative complexity. We agree that's key to do.
Speaker A Oh, I was going to say you mentioned, and I don't know if at this point it would be relevant, but I suppose at some point you mentioned that one data element that can give you an indication of maybe the type of work that they're doing could be compensation. So that might be if you are looking already at that point that you're looking at a whole Excel sheet of people and everything, that could be a good indication of the patient of work that they're doing. The other is if they have any recent communications around organizational decisions that they have made. My experience is usually companies who put out something saying, hey, we recently reorganized because this and that. And people are accountable for detective, whether it really happens a month that they're accountable for that maybe getting any communications that they have like, that are tied. Good any other comments or thoughts on the process? Yes. Employee surveys are sometimes useful too, because they can indicate whether or not employee could you say that? Employee surveys can sometimes indicate whether it's frustration from the subordinate and that they're getting the right level of supervision resources to their job. Good all right, so I think we've got some idea of the process, the reason why we're doing it. Now let's start looking at the questions. And you have, um so the protocol, we can just run through this, but you can read this as well. The work of key roles. We've talked about that. How the roles support business strategy and goals. That can be an interesting set of questions to ask people how much they understand. What the strategy, the goals and the objectives are. Overlaps or duplications of work, missing work, output, critical work that needs to be done. I always find a manager to tell me something about some critical work that needs to get done that he or she does not have the resources to do. And it's really helpful thinking and learning about what's going on or not going on in the organization. And by the same token, I ask the opposite question. What work are you or your subordinates being given to do to get done? That's what I call legacy work. That's just there because it's been there forever and really doesn't need to be done. The level of work complexity, we're going to talk more about that as we go along. So I won't go into that. Now, what decision making authorities they have, what resources of the organization can they spend in terms of people's time, in terms of how much money they can spend in one organization? The CEO has to approve every single discharge of the organization time wise. It's just crazy. A lot of people don't get discharged for that reason. That authority needs to be put somewhere else in the organization. So you'll come across oddities like that that have always been in the organization. That way you can begin to look at lateral working relationships. Those are also called in Elliot's book tiers task initiating role relationships. They're also sometimes called, I think your video was called Cross Functional Relationships. And by the way, those of you who looked at that video on Cross Functional Relationships, it talked about a PDF that you could download. Were you able to get a PDF? Good. Okay. The effectiveness of the current structure. In other words, what issues are these people having? I find people who will be very open and tell me, and they'll even give suggestions as to what they think should be done. So all of that needs. To be recorded. So that's sort of the general topics in your material. You have two pages of suggested questions. What I'd like you to do is read through those two pages quickly. Didn't expect you to develop the whole protocol, but we wanted you to begin to think on your own based on that, based on some of the questions there, some of the things that you need to know and how you might write those questions. So I just like to share a few of them in the next ten minutes and then they can all go up on the board so that you can look at all of them and collect those questions that you find particularly useful. Because you've got a very good group of minds in this room to be thinking of important questions to ask, how to add and how to ask. So let's try this group over here. Give us some questions that are different from what's in the material without having.
Speaker B I'm going to hope this isn't in the material to get the flow going. Tell me about your what, tell me about your business. So there's our thank you.
Speaker A Some questions. Okay. So it was more around establishing what that gives to them unique purpose to their role. So part of that is what does the role actually mean to them? How does that then align with other roles in the department, business and strategy? So it starts to give their understanding of the role opposed to what kind of people say, for instance, this is your position description, et cetera, then around what are actually the key accountabilities of that role. So what do they actually think they're held accountable for? Once again, how does that fit in alignment? And then starting to look at what are the long term challenges that are working on through to what are the long term deliverables that they're working on as well? That starts to give you some of that time span. Time arises from there. From there, you would actually then repeat that for all of their direct reports, they have that consistency with your questions for their roles. Perfect. And we'll put all of these up on the board. How about this group? This group likes the questions that they got in the book, among other things. Starting about tell about self, tell me a little bit about yourself to establish the rapport and then getting to some context purpose of the role, the business strategy. And then dotting into so how do things get done? What's working, what's not working, that sort of thing.
Speaker B Can I ask you a question on that one? I'm quite intrigued because the idea of rapport is quite important. On the other hand, I find if you ask questions about them, it might create the idea that we're doing some sort of assessment on them as an individual. So I like to do the rapport questions about the role of the business, but very specifically not about them. So I'm just wondering what other people.
Speaker A Yeah, I would like to know the answer to that. What is your feeling about starting the interview? I think it was suggested in here starting the interview with asking a person about themselves perhaps how long they've been with the company and questions like that to establish rapport as opposed to starting with I'd like you to tell me about the role that you're in and the work that you're doing. What are some experience in that regard? One of the models that I learned many years ago is that when you're meeting throughout any kind of business exchange, you start on the human level. Then you go to a business level and you may go back and forth between the human and the business and you end on the personal. So I find that helpful and getting a bit acquainted with them, a bit about their background is on the human level. You're connecting one human being to another, other thoughts or experiences.
Speaker B I'm curious maybe somewhat a cultural thing. Is that different in different countries?
Speaker A Sure, that's true. Is that a cultural positive report? Start with something personal, something that listen to their story. On something personal, you can bring the trust and positive communication of the interesting.
Speaker B If you work must DeVoice loud enough. If you work in the Muslim culture, you are not going to get away with asking personal questions. Not going to work. You're going to have to focus the questions on business stuff till they allow you by asking a personal question first. You are not going to get away, especially if it's a female to a male. You're going to have bigger problems. So there's lots of those nuances on a cultural, even religious level that you have to think about. It's all about social sciences and how people communicate and how that relates.
Speaker A That's right. It's all about that. And also you made an interesting point earlier about listen is the big word here, but listen to the language that people are using and then reflect that language back to them rather than ro words or your language. I mean, I'm not talking about English versus Spanish, but the words, how they use words, their meaning for the words at this point in time. I think that was a very good point. Well, what I was going to say is I think it depends how you do it too. Like if I do it by trying to establish rapport and tell me about yourself and I'm taking notes about it, then it might feel that it's personal. But if we're just starting and we're having some coffee and how, tell me also you're from the area and it's done more naturally. You establish the report without it feeling that the remainder of your questions are about the first. Yeah, thank you. How about this group and few questions doesn't want to rotate, so she would be forever. We have a conversation. God, I can't fall asleep today. It it okay. So I'm not going to go through the whole list. A couple of the ones that I thought were a little different in Tony was talking about, obviously the vision of their organization. But a key one is how do you see your role changing under strategy, direction of a company and seeing if they've actually conceptualized how their role in their organization needs to change to align the new direction that the company is going. And then I think another one was getting into the three levels. So what is your boss accountable for? And subordinates? And how do you add value to your subordinate work? Is an interesting question. And then we talked a little bit about the variable of your work and what are the variables that you control and what's under your control and what's outside of your control in your organization. To look at cross functional alignment and to try to look at the integration and what you have accountability that'll show something to you.
Speaker B Kick off the program with the key stakeholders. And let me give a short overview of what my plan is. Maybe some of the things that you discussing with them before you even start.
Speaker A The well, I think didn't you address that?
Speaker B I knew I heard it from a.
Speaker A Good source, but you're addressing it even is the credibility for your being there and your right to we're also breaking the ice. Absolutely.
Speaker B Nancy, if I could add to the room. But one question is two. Part of that we've been finding this very helpful is to ask the question in light of what you understand about the strategy, where it's going, is there anything in your current role that you would say you should not be held accountable for? In other words, is there something in your role that you think in the estimates of those currently in the strategy that you should let go of? It should be somewhere else. And where do you think that might need to be? Conversely, is there anything that you think is accountability there somewhere would be better in your role? What would that be and why would that be and where would it come from? Or is it possibly new work that just is going to grow out of this new strategy and you think it might be best placed in your role? So Cypher gave us some really good insights and ideas about what people are thinking about in terms of where workflow home.
Speaker A Yeah. And I'm doing that in depth right now in an organization that has spread risk and compliance in five different areas. And also purchasing is in five different business units, and everybody knows that it shouldn't be. So we're asking those questions about where should it be and why and how to get it merged. Absolutely. How about this group? Any questions that we haven't touched on? Any other ideas?
Speaker B Maybe the one I see there is. Why does this role the one I would be asking is, why does your role exist? To get an idea of whether this person understands the intent of what they're supposed to be doing. That way you can upcheck it with the what is it called? Superordinate. Make sure that I understand what my boss told me to do matches what they think they told me to do.
Speaker A Thank you, Jackson. So I think you all did a great job in thinking beginning to think this through. And we will post all these up on the wall so that you can pick up ideas from the other charts. Thank you for that work.