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Speaker A You're Jerry Gray, the Dean Emeritus of the Astro School of Business at the University of Manitoba. And I've been there for I was there for 35 years, retired, hired several months ago, and have now continued my career as an educator and consultant. It's a matter of luck, quite frankly, in hindsight, I always felt lucky to be in the right place at the right time. And it goes back to 1966, basically, and I was a graduate student at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, Illinois. And for reasons that have never become clear to me, a faculty member name of Fremont, a schol, who went by the name of Bud Scholl, took me under his wing to mentor me. And again, I have no idea why, but at that time he had just been exposed to what we then called the Glassier concepts. And he had met Elliot and met Wilford Brown and other people at a place called Glassier Institute of Management. And so, by virtue of hanging around Bud and being his graduate assistant, I was able to travel to some academic meetings and meet some of the people of Glassier. And then one day he just said, jerry, I would like to spend the summer at Gim in England. And I leaped it to chance because it was a great opportunity for me. So in the summer of 1967, while doing my thesis, my master's thesis, I was able to spend, I think I was there from May until August at the Institute studying, writing my thesis, taking courses, and just journally, learning more about what we called in the Glassier model. It was a very unique experience for me. In hindsight. Again, it was probably a matter of luck in one sense, of ever meeting Bud Shaw. At the time I was first exposed, which had been in 1966, I'd already been studying business for five years at that time, didn't have a whole lot of work experience. What I had was the usual part time college student kind of jobs. But I knew at that time I was going to be an academic. I decided I wanted to go on eventually and get a doctorate, which I did, and to be a teacher. And I'd already done some teaching, and I was quite comfortable with the role of a teacher, but never totally comfortable with all the concepts. I either didn't have the confidence in them. I didn't like the science behind them, if indeed there was any science. And I envied the people who had lots of experience, who could relate their experience as opposed to simply to talk about academic models. So when I was exposed to Glass here, which would have been and again in the fall of 66, it was like a breath of fresh air for me. I saw this as being something that was very science based, but something that I could stand up in front of a classroom and teach people and have the confidence that this stuff would work, even though I had never yet applied it myself. And it was a function of the scientific base, the soundness of the structure of the concepts, the fact they all tied together, how they made a very good integrated system. And it was that point that I decided that I would make my life teaching what we now call requisite organization. And so for 35 years, sometimes in public, sometimes hidden, I would do my thing. And it's been with me since day one. My experience was very interesting because it was very unstructured. And basically Bud said, Jerry, again, would you like to go to Glassier and spend the summer? And I said yes. And I don't know whose arm they twisted to get me to go there or to stay there, but I did and it was very unstructured. Again, I was writing my thesis at the time, so I could work on that during the days. But also there were courses there and it was located away from the actual plant. The plant at that time was in a place called Apperton, England. And the Glacier Institute was in the suburbs of London called Place called Ricelip. So every day I would climb on the tube and go out to Ricelip and spend my day out there, either taking classes, meeting other managers, because these had people from outside Glass here and spending my day writing my thesis and so forth. What was interesting was that again, this was back in the Institutes, had several roles. One of the roles was to take the newly hired glassier in those days would be stratum two and above managers and put them into a series of courses at the Institute. And the purpose was to indoctrinate them, would be the strong word, or socialize them into the glassier way of doing things, the glassier way of thinking. And more importantly, the glassier, what they call glassier speak. And glassier speak was the things we now recognize as the unique set of definitions that we use in requisite organization. But in those days, it was just the common language of glass here. So imagine being a brand new, I don't care, stratum three manager going into glass here and hearing people talk about these things like managers are once removed and middle manager authority, well, you'd be lost. So the Institute served the purpose, amongst others, of indoctrinating these people, educating them into the ways of glassier. Plus there were other companies sent their managers there to learn the glassier method. So it was a great mixture of glassier managers and outside people and myself as a graduate student listening. So I had courses from Elliot Jackson thinking in those days when he taught me, he was half the age I am now and that's kind of interesting thought. And Wilfred Brown, of course, taught and matter of fact, I can remember the class he taught is in fact his film series now, which is called exploration management and the film series had just come out and this was the first course he had taught after the film series had been released. And so he was so glad because he could just sit back and show the episodes one at a time and then we would have our discussion and took a lot of the load off him after having a lecture for a whole day. And so he was quite relieved to have the film series available to take the burden off him. So it's very unique opportunity to sit there in a room with Wilford Brown and him watching himself on film and he was kind of embarrassed, as we all are when we see ourselves on film, but they were done, as we all know now very, very well and we're quite effective.