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- In the 80s, CRA had completely restructured using Stratified systems theory as their basis across all of their companies. It gave me the opportunity for the first time to work from the top to the shop floor. There were major projects over a long period of time which was improving the quality of leadership.
- CRA started from what were the major systems that needed to be aligned and coherent with the culture. Change programs probably, and depending on the size of the organization, went on for five or six years. It's really thinking about very seriously the design of those systems and then thinking about what behaviors will that drive.

- That book and the spinoffs has been enormously influential but in ways of which we can perhaps discuss. What Elliot and Wilfred did was produce a wonderful set of tools whereby you could take an organization and strip it down to the minimum number of levels. I propose that we move away from time span and that we adopt a system of trying to identify the collection of distinctive activities.

- Elliot's notion that there was discrete step level to level, so that it's like ice to water to steam, a change of state. That flies in the face of everything that we know about human capability. Most of the things that we see are unimodal.

- The first time we used it without Elliot was in 1991, when I was at maxwell technologies out in California. We had to redesign the work and refocus the efforts of the company into not just growth areas, but recapturing business. By 96, five years into it, we were back.

- Was a long way from anything close to what you'd see in Stratified Systems Theory books. Over time we implemented a lot of the principles in that organization. One of the things that we picked up is the role of an individual contributor. We had less success spreading that throughout the corporation.

- The training came about because we had several speakers over quite a period of time. Several of them want to have the deans back, either to come to their company for only their management team. Visage is now embarked on a program of a curriculum which is new. It's a good thing for our membership.

- In the medical profession, you have direct output at virtually level two through level five. The complexity of a department really was dramatically different. It was growing the next generation of hospital commanders. Now in the military, the doctors do command the hospitals.

- One of the things that does concern me about the work is cultural. The values, understanding system symbols and behavior resonates very, very well across cultures. But the places where I have had difficulty with this material is Russia and Eastern European countries. People talk more about accountability than enact it.

- Requisite organization for Novus management system. As we've grown so much, training has become increasingly important training. Corporate governance and segregation of duties have become very important. We're looking now at trying to move the training into a different phase.

- Mike Kirby is the deputy undersecretary of the United States Army for Business transformation engineering. Background MBA time as a serving officer in the US Army and then in the business world. Now charged by the Secretary and the Chief of Staff to lead a change process in the way the army does business.

- Did a lot of work in the 80s with public sector organizations that were going through privatization. BIOS Europe has moved from an academic base to developing a consultancy. Has developed a range of services including talent bank, succession planning and leadership development.
- Most of BIOS Europe's current team have been clients. Three or four consultants who've joined the firm in the last two years are under 50. BIOS is working to broaden its client base as the consultancy market changes.

- My consulting practice has changed somewhat over the last eleven years that I've been consulting. I tend to work with smaller presidents, companies under 100 million in size. What I like to do is to find ways for a company to grow by 25% within one year.
- One concern for Canada is that our governments have allowed our large global companies to disappear. Most of the head offices have been bought out by either American or European pulp and paper companies. What that means for consulting is that you have to focus in on smaller companies and help them grow.

- Maria Burt is a human resources manager at Novus. The company has six levels in its management system. Burt helps managers match employee capability to the role complexity. She says the most important thing for her was how open the process is.

- I started in the Rio Tindo group about 35 years ago in Broken Hill. His first line management role was any significance was about 30, 32 years ago. His reorganization highlighted the challenges of making organisation change in a big organization. His ideas contributed a lot.

- Are you an independent consultant or are you part of a team? Are you going to educate the management about some basic requisite concepts ahead of time? What you really need to do is establish trust between yourself and the managers.
- Who is driving the project? Who is funding the implementation of Requisite organization into the organization? Is there also an implicit or explicit assessment of the capability of the leader of the unit or the organization. And when this happens, what do we do rather than walking away?
- You also have to decide in that interview, is there enough time to interview them about how they delegate their work. You have to determine whether you're going to have two interviews or try to get it all done in one interview.
- Jerry: Apply big data. I like to ask the client for the total organization in an Excel spreadsheet to analyze. We had software where we take that Excel spreadsheet, load it in, and we can immediately have it show us or charts.
- One data element that can give you an indication of maybe the type of work that they're doing could be compensation. The other is if they have any recent communications around organizational decisions that they have made. Employee surveys are sometimes useful too.
- Is there anything in your current role that you would say you should not be held accountable for? And where do you think that might need to be? Why does this role exist? And we will post all these up on the wall so that you can pick up ideas from the other charts.

- Companies that need to pay attention to time horizons beyond the present three to five years. Most companies need certainly to go beyond five. Independent directors on the board will press for longer term incentives. This will create demand for these longer term skills.

- The topic is of our presentation. Our day long working together actually is requisite compensation. There are a number of people going to present on the application. What I'd like to do is have each of them tell you a little bit about themselves and about what they're planning to present.
- Gavin: I'd like to just take a minute to have Catherine introduce herself. Bring your chairs up to a table if you like. Just use that. Catherine is a resource, too, during this.
- Introduce myself. Most of you, certainly some of you know who I am. I was here two years ago, so your faces are familiar. I am interested in getting to know who you are and what you're doing. Catherine is Elliot's long term colleague and wife widow.
- In order to establish a requisite compensation system, you have to establish work bands within the strata of the wells. Without requisite structure to start with, the compensation discussions become confused. Some roles are just very difficult to time span.
- Time span is the measure of a human intention. It is the basic building block of Elliot Jack's work. The time spanning of an extant current role is significantly different from the time span of a newly created role. I think we could have a full day session on time span.
- Seniority raises its ugly head in the US. People in level one roles are often making compensation, which is seniority based. By law, you can easily get yourself out of line with the market. Let's come back at 20 after ten if that gives.

- We've separated the notion of human resource management from industrial relations. What we've recognized is that higher up in the organization, we've got to be thinking about the development longer term. Elliot's work has awakened me to thinking about organization very differently.

- Thad Simons is the President and CEO of Novus International. Novus is an animal health and nutrition company. Two thirds of its sales are outside of the US. Simons says he has never had any management training. He credits HR manager Sabrina Hamilton for his success.
- The Nova's Vision is helping to feed the world. Today we tie those same concepts into principles of sustainability. A part of that was using Requisite organization. It took a lot of work with the different managers to set up the roles.
- Everyone is not equal in an organization because there have decisions have to be made. If we're doing it well we're pushing down that decision making. And we're also empowering people more to work at a level that they really are comfortable with.

- Rick Brown is principal of an independent consulting company. He's had a 30 year career in financial services in two major banks in Canada. The last ten years has been with CIBC. He moved from a stratum three role to a true stratum four strategic head of HR role.
- I was the director of Human Resources in a division at CIBC. I spent the next five years as the business HR resource implementing Requisite. org. During that period I was more a target of the change than really an agent. The learnings came later on when we took the learnings more internally.
- Most of my work as head of HR was highly tactical and operational in nature. I started operating as a true stratum three and start bridging the world between operational execution and strategy development. I didn't have a lot of difficulty adapting or resisting the change.

- The setting up of the Glacier Institute of Management was a direct result of continued inquiries from businessmen. His books are not published within the United Kingdom any longer. Most of the books published make no reference to his work whatsoever. But the ideas that he formulated were, in some senses, ahead of way ahead of their time.

- We still operate we we operate in multimodal time horizons. Our future combat systems investment that we're. Making now is out to 2025. 2030. On things like body armor, on. Solving the IED problem. We have a much longer time horizon.

- Glacier had a sheet of progression curves for every individual. They were updated each year by the personnel function in conjunction with the manager. This is where pay increases were going through. It was unusual even today behind every individual having merit based pay systems.
- The manager's manager is to take a look at or equilibrate the performance appraisal assessments or personal effectiveness assessments. They're looking for patterns which managers seem to be very stringent in rating, which managers may be more generous. Here might be an opportunity for some coaching and mentoring between managers around comp and performance management.
- At Roche, employees were satisfied with the Pay program. Roche used an employee relations survey probably once every two years. A lot of those kinds of situations can be headed off by HR or the MRR.
- Employees sit down with their managers to get feedback about their effectiveness appraisal. It's the first honest feedback they've ever had. justifying those ratings are important. There are some very clear principles that can be derived from these practices.
- The effectiveness appraisal process and the first feedback is the first time people understand that accountability is real. Accountability is an abstract concept. It doesn't become real and visceral. You have to begin at the moment that you declare we're going to become a requisite organization.
- This is my suggestion. Why don't we take a food break now, a little food break, and then have one more presentation for lunch, and have lunch at one? Is that all right with the group?

- Tricia Beal is the director of Global communications for Novus International. Says she immediately noticed a level of structure in the management system. Says it provides a global structure which enables people around the world to feel connected back. Has had zero turnover in her group since she joined.

- "I immediately saw the drastic change we had to make and I can't say that it scared me. But it also gave me enormous relief because I felt now there was a clear solution to the mess that had been there, " she says. The integration of credit and finance cut down probably one third of the whole management structure.